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Feb-17-10 02:53 pm
Several questions about the cue library
Category: Social

admin wrote:

If you submitted a cue sheet you should be able to edit it.  If someone else submitted a cue then you need to contact that person to make changes.  This system is the most secure so people can't go willy nilly changing other people's work.


Two points, one technical question and a comment

1)  what I asked for and what I think we need are guide lines (and rules) on the Cue Library page explaining how to update a cue sheet or how to make a temporary correction to it.  Currently there are NO guidelines or information on how to change a cue sheet that is in the library. 

2)  You raise an entirely new issue of "willy nilly" changes to cue sheets. You add that you have security in place to prevent this from happening.  I don't think any club member would "willy nilly" change someone else's cue sheet.  You are protecting against a non-existent threat. I think you have put "security" in place that will just prove to be cumbersome, that will make it harder for the cue sheet library to be kept up to date.  Why not make the security of the cue library much looser: allow all registered users to change cue sheets.  If someone screws something up, we will know who they are and appropriate action can be taken.  (Make them go on rides without a helmet for a few times.)  I think we should start with more liberal controls on the cue library and only tighten them up if there are problems.  Let's not start out thinking the members of the club are a bunch of malicious idiots who will willy nilly mess up the work of others. Let's start with a flexible open system that will encourage all to keep the cue sheets up to date.

question: is the cue library set up so that it is possible to go back to an earlier version of a cue sheet?  Or is the updating of a cue sheet a destructive action that removes the old cue sheet?  (The relevance of this question to the previous points is obvious.)

comment: most of my cue sheet work has been modifying the wonderful old cue sheets of others so that the cue sheets now work.  If it is not easy to do this, people will just submit a new cue sheet with a slightly different name and leave the old one in the library. The old one will be wrong but will remain in the library.  This is basically the state of cuesheetcentral: tons of cue sheets that don't quite work anymore.  Let's try to set up a system that will ease the most common activity involving cue sheets: tweaking them a bit so they still work.



Feb-17-10 12:06 pm
Several questions about the cue library
Category: Social

Steve wrote:

* Who controls access to cuesheets for edits/deletes/uploads?  This is an issue where a cuesheet might be changed inadvertently or otherwise.

Will/BBC Board: could you give some guidance or rules on how the "update" procedure should work. Two particular cases come to mind that are especially murky:

1)  I lead a ride someone else did; I find that their cue sheet is flat out wrong in some respect. I want to submit a corrected cue sheet to their ride. Can I do this? Should I do this? Do I leave a comment about what the error was?

2)  I lead a ride that I did the cue sheet for (or someone else did the cue sheet.). On pre-riding the ride I find that a bridge is out so I come up with a temporary version of this cue that I want to put in the library so that people going on the ride can pull it out ahead of time.  When the bridge is fixed, the old cue sheet should become the one that is pulled out.  This kind of temporary cue sheet is something that happens all the time. What should we do?  (One can always put a "new" cue sheet in the library with a new name "Boring Loop--bridge out" and this would work but it would lead to a needless proliferation of cue sheets in the library. )



Feb-17-10 10:07 am
add this characteristic to ride descriptions
Category: Social

Can we add elevation gain to the basic description for all rides?  Remember how much discussion there was in the forum of elevation gain last year?

I would argue that elevation gain is just as important--if not a more important characteristic of rides--than distance. 

While we are still setting up the cue library--and before we have one thousand cues in it, we should consider adding other interesting features to the basic descriptions of rides:

1) Number of gut busting hills (Steve could define "gut busting")

2) Quality of food stops--on a scale of 1 to 5

3)  Rating of the difficult of the ride on the "Mark Tabb" difficulty scale


It will be much harder to go back and add these things in down the line after we have tons of cue sheets in the library.


Feb-17-10 09:53 am
Category: Social
Forum: Advocacy

Barry Childress wrote:

In other words "but the cyclist swerved" would be a codified legal excuse as would be "but the cyclists was not riding as far right as possible."

Barry: Given that this is a seriously defective bubble bill, do you think cyclists should support it or work against it? 

There is the argument that a bad bubble bill will take all of the momentum away for a good bubble bill, where what we need is a good bubble bill--without the codified exceptions--that really protects cyclists.

After all, if this weak/bad bubble bill passes both houses and is signed into law this year, will there be ANYONE in the legislature--Senate or House--who would push for yet another bubble bill next year? Won't they brush off ALL cycling advocates next year (including OLC--hey Carol, what do you think?) by saying "We gave you a bubble bill last year. What more do you want?

If this current bubble bill, a small improvement over where we are that can be built on in the future or a fake piece of legislation which actually sets us back?

What is your wisdom here?  And what does anyone else think?  (I definitely think that there is no cause for celebration here, but rather a case where we need sober reflection on this piece of legislation.)

Ed Hopkins

Feb-17-10 06:31 am
Fate of cuesheet central?
Category: Social

jgoldst wrote:

Is this an official request from the Board?

Janet: It is NOT an official request from the board. It is just me saying what could be done. (I personally think that the only way to move people to the new forum is to do so by force.  Disallow posting in the old forum, give them a message that they should sign up on the new forum, and have done with it.  Probably wait a week or two to allow for voluntary movement from one forum to the other but then cut off submitting.)


Feb-16-10 11:20 am
Fate of cuesheet central?
Category: Social wrote:

BBCTalk will be replace by the forums. If you subscribe to a forum(s) , you can receive an email on your iPod or smartphone. My guess is that until the club shuts down BBCTalk, a lot of members will not make the switch to the forums.


Shut down the old forum: yes.
Delete the old forum: no.

Let's get all the technical stuff straight. You can "shut down" the old yahoo, BBC forum in the sense that no more posts can be made to it without DELETING it.

What should be done--and it can be done today--is that new posts should be blocked and users should be redirected to the new BBC forum. The new web site can point to the merely historical old BBC forum.  (Janet certainly knows how to turn off the old forum--just turning the "posting option" to "off" and it is done.)

I have an unused yahoo forum out there that just stays and stays. I think it will stay there until I delete it.  Let's do that with the BBC Yahoo form.


Feb-16-10 09:04 am
Fate of cuesheet central?
Category: Social

I did not realize until I read Bob's message that the old cue sheets (and old rides) were not transferred to the new site.

While I do understand that it may be difficult to do this transfer and that it might take more than some quality beer to make it worth Will's time to do it, it seems highly desirable to save for the next five years at least (not forever!) all of the history of the club we can.

For me this means saving all of AND the old yahoo Forum.

Should we not, where it is easy, just keep the old stuff around as a resource and point to it from the new site?

Some remarks on each of these historical items:

The old yahoo bbc forum: I know that there is NO cost involved in maintaining this.  Forums on Yahoo continue to exist for years with no ones effort. Just don't delete it and point to it.

the old Phil: is there any labor involved, any significant labor that would keep you off your bike, in keeping this software functioning, without enhancing it at all?  (Currently it does not seem to work by the way. I tried to pull out one the cuesheetcentral cuesheets to compare it to a new version on the new site and I could not get it.)

If there is substantial effort in just keeping this old cuesheetcentral running, is there any way to dump out the key parts of it in a form that they can be reference?  Can we have a new database of the rides? a directory full of the old cues?  Something?

I think these decisions about throwing away the history of the club or keeping it should be made by the BBC board--not just by Will.  I hope it is working that way. But Will is a volunteer (I assume he is not being paid) and I fully sympathize with his saying: too much work for me. I don't care about that history. If you want it, get someone else to do it.

I volunteer to help with any efforts to maintain this history. It is not my intention to push work on Will who has done a remarkable job with the new site.

(And I will probably call on rando Bob for help.)


Feb-11-10 07:05 pm
Category: Social


Did we have a problem with spam on the Yahoo discussion list--that I was unaware of? 

If there a better chance, as far as you know, of getting span now?

I add my vote to those that hate the captcha.



Feb-11-10 05:23 pm
Category: Social
Forum: Advocacy

Let me second Terry's recommendation to add your voice to the comments rapidly adding up on this article.  They are the usual batch of ugly ones.

This is a typical one:

"this is the level of stupid legislation that I have come to expect from this socialist state. The roads were made for cars for mass transit - they were not made with the intention of having "personal transportation devices"! I am sick and tired of riding behind 30 cars trying to get past an idiot bicyclist because we cant pass him due to on-coming traffic. Bikers should be required to have their own lanes and should be taxed individually for their own benefit!
Bikers should stay off the roads and on their own paths!
The legislators should make themselves useful to all Marylanders or make themselves scarce!

If you want saner voices out there, contribute.


Feb-10-10 10:43 am
It is really good to see all that is going on
Category: Social

I believe in freedom of choice and motherhood and apple pie and all that good stuff too. On my scheme people are free to delete without reading any message they get they are not interested in. But they will at least know that discussions of certain things are taking place.  This "freedom to delete or not read" seems like plenty of freedom to me.

I am worried about the repercussions of people choosing, freely choosing, not to be informed of what is going on.  I am worried about the deliberate blinding of people--by themselves--to whole aspects of the life of the BBC.   For people who primarily "see" the forum via the emails they are subscribed to they will NOT have an overview of what is going on in any forums they are not subscribed to.  They will not have any idea that a "bubble bill" is even being debated if they are not subscribed to that forum. 

You seem to assume that most people "read" the forum by going to the web site and browsing. If that is true then people will be aware of other things going on. I assume, on the other hand, that most people get their form activity by e-mail by "subscribing" to certain forums and getting the activity on that forum emailed to them.

I really don't know if you are right or I am right. Can you tell by looking at how people are subscribed to forums whether most people are relying on their email to see the forums? 

Anyone else have any opinions on this?  (of course there may be thousands who agree with me but will not even know I am raising this issue because they are not subscribed to this particular rather esoteric forum on website improvements. And this is my worry.)

ed, watching the blizzard

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